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Strange Occurence With Nitro
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Victory Pete



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject: Strange Occurence With Nitro Reply with quote

I have been working with Nitro for years, I am always a bit surprised at the things I have seen and learned. Yesterday I decided to touch up my 2016 Gibson Western Classic headstock. There was chipping on the edge under the truss rod cover. I leave them off so it was bugging me. With tuners still on I masked a small triangle area over the truss rod cavity. Sprayed 3 50/50 wash coats. Realizing I would have to take off the tuners to do proper level sanding I took them off and removed the masking tape. What was left was a distinct triangle that was higher than the surrounding finish. I was determined to level sand this down and proceeded. It came out pretty good but from my experience no matter how well you level sand you will always see some kind of wave or deflection as you get to the final high gloss buffing stage. So I decided to give the entire head stock a few wash coats. After the first coat I was pleased at the final flow out, I though that this may be it, just will need buffing. An hour later I look at it and started to laugh, the triangle was back, a perfect rendition of it, but it was recessed. So I gave it 2 more wash coats, each time getting better results but the triangle is still clearly there and it is again recessed. How could this be, if anything I would expect it to be higher because that area would take longer to dry and shrink. I am puzzled. Thanks for the help.
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Victory Pete



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a picture after 1 hour after the 3rd coat.



Last edited by Victory Pete on Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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Victory Pete



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Added a 4th coat and got some blushing, it is a bit humid today. I had a can of Behlens Blush Eraser and it did the trick, it also seemed to make the triangle disappear. I wonder how it will look after drying overnight. I don't want to go down to my shop anymore today because I had heard the Retarder that is in the Blush Eraser is very toxic stuff, I did notice a very different sinister smell.
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Lon



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 6086
Location: Stephenville, TX

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found in doing repairs like yours, the new nitro will flow away from the indention because it is harder than the new finish layer. What I do is float some new nitro over the indention with a q- tip to fill it. Then wait 1-2 hours for it to flash, then start spraying wet coats
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Victory Pete



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lon wrote:
I have found in doing repairs like yours, the new nitro will flow away from the indention because it is harder than the new finish layer. What I do is float some new nitro over the indention with a q- tip to fill it. Then wait 1-2 hours for it to flash, then start spraying wet coats


There was no indentation to start with. I had just level sanded it perfectly flat. But then the indentation keeps appearing after an hour of spraying. It is a mystery. I realize the finish under the area that I had masked off and sprayed the day before was softened. If after I level sanded this newly sprayed area and allowed it to dry for a long time then I would expect to see this triangle area shrink, but that us not the case. It shrank after an hour of spraying, even after the 4th coat. I am sure it will come out fine when I do the final level sanding a couple weeks from now, I just cant figure out why it shrank after an hour.
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Victory Pete



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Level Sanded Reply with quote

I level sanded down until the triangle disappeared. I just wonder if it will reappear later, who knows, time will tell.


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Jazzmeister



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 1439
Location: The Hawkeye State

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, makes me wonder if there is something that is incompatible with your lacquer in that spot--possibly some uncured epoxy from the inlay, some oil/stain etc. Try some CA glue once this coat has cured then one more lacquer coat.
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Victory Pete



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jazzmeister wrote:
Hmm, makes me wonder if there is something that is incompatible with your lacquer in that spot--possibly some uncured epoxy from the inlay, some oil/stain etc. Try some CA glue once this coat has cured then one more lacquer coat.


I am not sure if everyone is reading the posts carefully. The indentation is the outline of the area I had masked and then spayed the day before. When I removed the tape it was a very distinct and higher section, like a triangle but really I guess it is a trapezoid. I then level sanded it completely flat. Then when I sprayed lacquer over the entire headstock the indentation slowly appeared, it did this for all 4 coats. Today I level sanded with 220 grit, it is now level. I am going to let it cure some more and keep an eye on it to see if any "ghost" image appears. I am confident eventually this will look absolutely flat and glossy. What confuses me is not that this 'ghost" appeared, it is that it is indented and not protruding. Protruding would make sense to me as the new lacquer I sprayed initially would make the older lacquer underneath it to soften and swell.
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Jazzmeister



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 1439
Location: The Hawkeye State

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I thought it was what looks like a little pin-hole around that goblet inlay.

Man, now we actually have to read the posts carefully? What the heck?? Laughing Embarassed
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Victory Pete



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jazzmeister wrote:
Sorry, I thought it was what looks like a little pin-hole around that goblet inlay.

Man, now we actually have to read the posts carefully? What the heck?? Laughing Embarassed


I only saw that when I posted it here, that was just a dust bunny.
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Jazzmeister



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 1439
Location: The Hawkeye State

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, I think you should be able to wet sand the different levels out as long as you have plenty of material on there. It does seem unexpected that the finish would be lower in that area, but I'm guessing that's the difference between lacquer that has begun to shrink vs. new lacquer with all the solvents still on the surface. I wouldn't sweat it.
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Victory Pete



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sanded from 600 through 12000, then 4 grades of buffing compound by hand. It looks really good, funny trapezoid indentation is gone, although I still can see a very faint ghost image of it with a magnifying glass. It is still a bit soft as I can see some very fine sanding lines in it. I think I will let it sit and then maybe hit it again with the buffing compound a bit later.



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marksound



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 16669
Location: OKUSA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see a lot of sanding scratches. Your clear will continue to gas off and shrink, so you can address that later. I wouldn't be surprised if the triangle or whatever starts to show again in the meantime.
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Victory Pete



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, this is only about a week old, some scratches, although they only show up in pictures. I don't like to wet sand, so some tiny scratches are inevitable. They will come out when I give it the final buffing in a week or so. I am going to be patient, as once the tuners are on I cant buff easily. I don't think the triangle will reappear as an indentation, it is showing a little bit now because the triangle is buffing out differently than the rest of the surface. The triangle is a day older than the rest. It is funny how just a day can make the lacquer buff differently. At some point the day difference will become neglible.
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marksound



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 16669
Location: OKUSA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Victory Pete wrote:
Yes, this is only about a week old, some scratches, although they only show up in pictures. I don't like to wet sand, so some tiny scratches are inevitable. They will come out when I give it the final buffing in a week or so. I am going to be patient, as once the tuners are on I cant buff easily. I don't think the triangle will reappear as an indentation, it is showing a little bit now because the triangle is buffing out differently than the rest of the surface. The triangle is a day older than the rest. It is funny how just a day can make the lacquer buff differently. At some point the day difference will become neglible.

Forgive me for being frank, but those are not tiny scratches. I wouldn't deliver a job with sanding scratches like that.

It's your guitar, so I defer to your judgment. Smile
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