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Gretsch 5420 Refinish "first archtop hollow body"
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leftyjay



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 444
Location: SW Florida

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Gretsch 5420 Refinish "first archtop hollow body" Reply with quote

I've paint plenty of tele and strat bodies, but never attempted a set neck or a hollowbody before. so this will be a first. I have don't a few binded bodies. they are a pain to do, but always look awesome when they are done.

this started its life as a 5420 with the black face filtertrons. there was a harp tail piece. the finish was rather shoddy, though it sounded pretty good. I added a B6 Bigsby and played it a while. after a year, I noticed the finish was starting to orange peel pretty bad. then I noticed a few cracks in the finish near one of the F-holes.

I decided its time to take the plunge and refinish this thing in one of my metalflake paint jobs. I think i'm just flaking the front and leaving the back and sides opaque.

after sanding the finish off (which took 3 days), I found out that this guitar had a thick clear sealer coat under the paint. that made it nice since I didn't have to strip it down to the wood. I was able to save 95% of the sealer coat with only a couple sand thru's.

I noticed that gretsch factory used a red grain filler for this plywood laminate. that probably is the reason the guitar was an opaque color. back and sides aren't bad. the neck has some weird grain which wouldn't look very good in a light translucent finish. though I thought about a walnut/dark brown translucent on the neck, back, and sides which doesn't show the grain as well, but will let some grain show thru. it'll have to be a spray on translucent since stain or dye will look blotchy on the sealer coat. i'm not about to sand thru the sealer coat. i'd probably mess the plywood up.

i'm going to be using automotive acrylic urethane on the guitar so the flake wont be a problem. lacquer just wont cover the flake good enough unless I spray 30 coats of clear. then 3 months down the road, i'll have to spray more clear. i'm probably going to go with a red flake on the top.







I found 2 cracks under the paint near the F-hole. I glued and cleated them, now they are solid.

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Last edited by leftyjay on Mon May 26, 2014 12:57 am; edited 2 times in total
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leftyjay



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 444
Location: SW Florida

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the F-hole binding is not the greatest. it is very rough, but does look better than no binding.

sides look good. only issue was the extra holes where the bigsby was mounted. I filled the access holes.




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leftyjay



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 444
Location: SW Florida

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm thinking I will be taping up the binding with 3m pinstripe tape. mask off the fretboard and front of headstock. lay the guitar face down and paint the back, sides, and neck first.

let it dry, then flip it over and spray the base coat on the front of the body, since it'll probably be different then the back and sides.

then comes the binding scraping if needed. then mask off everything but the front so I can flake it. let it dry, then check the binding incase anything needs scraped again.

then it will be time to clear the whole guitar.

that's where I have a question? how do you guys mount the guitar so you can spray the whole thing? if I hang it from the tuner holes, I wont be able to reach the top of headstock and will have problem spraying on the bottom.

so how do you put this on a revolving stick so you can turn it while you're spraying?
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DustyMurphy



Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 1396
Location: Lawrence, KS

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never done a set neck or a hollowbody, but if I was going to come up with a way to paint it, I'd probably have to hang it and move around with a step ladder to cover the missed areas. I'm interested to see your process.

Please post pictures if you can- I'm a total beginner with flake and with urethane and I'm very excited and interested to see your process and steps with that too.
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leftyjay



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 444
Location: SW Florida

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to take a trip to my local auto paint supplier and see what options I have for a translucent brown that I can use on the back and sides and neck.

if there is no option, i'll go with a dark metallic burgundy/wine color on the whole guitar, then spray roth trippin rothragious red flake on the top. I've had great success with dark base coats under flake.

I like to spray clear horizontally. I can put on thicker coats without runs. I probably with have to hang the guitar though. a ladder may be my only option.

Monday, i'm buying supplies. should start painting Tuesday.I'll post pics as I go.
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DustyMurphy



Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 1396
Location: Lawrence, KS

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would there be some kind of plate you slide inside the pickout route and then turn it and insert some kind of threaded bar and hang it?

I've been thinking about it this evening and that's the only idea I could come up with so far.
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DustyMurphy



Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 1396
Location: Lawrence, KS

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

leftyjay wrote:
if there is no option, i'll go with a dark metallic burgundy/wine color on the whole guitar, then spray roth trippin rothragious red flake on the top.


I think that sounds especially beautiful. Roth is where I'm planning to order my flake, they have some that looks especially nice. I'm hoping to do a Kandy Blue coat over mine for extra beauty.
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C5000



Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 337
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I did my LP special, I hung it from the tuner holes and devised a wire through the pickup routes. I had hung it from a chain with a carabiner with the bottom about 12-18 inches from the floor, so I could pick up the guitar (very carefully) with a S hook through the wire in the pickup routes, and then attach that to another chain that hung from the ceiling. At this point the guitar was close to horizontal, so I could spray the bottom by the strap button.

I didn't have any trouble spraying it vertical, once I got the tip that the HOK flake carrier isn't thinned 1-1 according to directions, but 2-1 so it doesn't run.

I did the black headstock first with the guitar on a stand, and once I had a couple coats of clear on that and it was dry, I taped that off and attached my mounting system. This way I didn't have to worry about the front face of the headstock for the basecoating and flaking.

LeftyJay: do you by chance recall what color/name base you used under the agent orange flake? I just got some in for my next Gibby project.

Since you have the option of doing the top w/ flake last, or at least completely separate, it shouldn't be too tough.
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leftyjay



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 444
Location: SW Florida

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, i'll be laying the guitar flat for everything but the clear coat. should be easy up to that point. when its time to clear it, i'll probably hang the guitar by the tuner holes.

as for the base coat color I used on my orange sparkle tele....I used "hot lava" metallic orange like they use on Scion cars. it looks like burnt orange. when I used the roth trippin agent orange flake, I was glad I didn't use a real orange base coat.
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Helloid



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 3348
Location: NoVA

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have some surface options if you are careful not to bump it.

On one end you have tuner holes to use for hanging. You also have the fretboard, which you can tape over and then lay it on a 2x4 or box. For the tail you can put supports in the body through the pickup holes to hold it up, or the strap hole at the bottom.
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marksound



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 16669
Location: OKUSA

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my customers has been talking about doing an LP kit. I'm still trying to figure out how to hang it.

Like everything else, it will probably hit me once I have it here. Cool
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RandyM



Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 6716
Location: Austin Texas

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been doing a few SG's lately, and always hang them by the tuner holes.
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Jovi Bon Kenobi



Joined: 22 Dec 2012
Posts: 234
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For spraying vertically, I use nylon bushings in the tuner holes and clothesline wire through the bushings.
I can hang it low or high so I can get around it and the wire is very sturdy.

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chris jury



Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 778
Location: seattle

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always screw an eye hook into the bottom strap button hole and hang it by that...always worked fine for me. I always use large, long screws for the strap buttons anyway.
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leftyjay



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 444
Location: SW Florida

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i bought the supplies today and started taping up the binding and neck. I filled the F-holes with paper towel and card stock paper. the F-holes were a bear to tape off. this 3m vinyl tape doesn't like to be stretched. you have to keep a loose tension around the curves. I know there will be some binding scraping necessary. I have a dowel with a straight edge razor that I scrape binding. should be fairly easy, but time consuming.

i'm trying a new clear on this project. it is PPG Deltron ultra velocity clearcoat (DC2000). it is a 3 part clear (4-1-1 mixing ratio) suppose to enhance productivity in air-dry repair facilities. it has extremely fast flash time, i'm talking QUICK!!! here is a link for the Deltron products

http://us.ppgrefinish.com/PPG-Refinish/Products/Automotive-Refinish/Deltron

how bout being able to sand/buff in just 30 minutes?????i'm talking air dry in an average of 70 degrees. you apply 2 medium wet coats with no flash between coats. dust free in 9-12 minutes. tape time is 1 hour. air dry to resemble 1 hour. if you need to recoat, allow 2 hours, then scuff before adding more coats.

paper towels in F-holes



card stock paper to cover F-holes and pickup holes



taped headstock and neck





and the binding is taped and ready for base coat





I was going to buy Ford Ruby Red Metallic for my base coat. its a 3 stage paint with metallic and pearl. search google for images of cars with that color. anyway... the shop told me to sit down before he tells me the price. one pint of this stuff cost $180. Shocked FORGET THAT!!!

I bought one pint of deep red metallic for $30. that's enough for 3-4 guitars.

he also made me some dark brown tint so I can mix with my HOK SG100 intercoat. it'll allow me to spray a translucent brown on the back and sides and still be able to see the grain. not sure if I want to try that on this guitar. will test it out on some wood scrap before giving it a shot.

if the weather holds up tomorrow, i'll be spraying.
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