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Advice / Help with my first go-round
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Lon



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 6127
Location: Stephenville, TX

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will probably find that the dye mixed with alcohol put the shellac back into solution, and made everything mix together. Best bet is to remove it all with alcohol, wiping until back to bare wood.

If you use shellac as a sealer, then spray the color mixed with nitro, until your liking, then clear coats
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nedonnelly



Joined: 05 Aug 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lon wrote:
You will probably find that the dye mixed with alcohol put the shellac back into solution, and made everything mix together. Best bet is to remove it all with alcohol, wiping until back to bare wood.

If you use shellac as a sealer, then spray the color mixed with nitro, until your liking, then clear coats


Lon that makes sense. When I spray the color should I mix the dye as I did previously? (using denatured alcohol as a thinner) Also should I mix the nitro with a 1:1 ratio?

Can't thank you enough for the insight. Very Happy
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nedonnelly



Joined: 05 Aug 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. I know it has been awhile, but seeing as I'm a full time student I have only small windows to complete DIY projects. That being said: Hello again!

I'm back to update, and also ask questions.

Update 1:

I used 000 steel wool and denatured alcohol to get as much of the poor dye job out of the wood. These are the results:



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nedonnelly



Joined: 05 Aug 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update 2:

I've re-applied some coats of shellac, and thanks to Lon's great advice of using dye with nitro I have started in on getting some color. Feel free to give any advice in terms of this spray job. This is my first time so feedback is welcome.



Now for the questions. I have taped up the fretboard and f-holes for this lacquer plus dye combination. But I'm not quite sure as to whether I should tape up the pickup slots, and also the binding on the front of the guitar. I don't know if this is worth the time now to save time later in the process of having to scrape through binding on the front.



That's a picture of the binding. I was able to scrape through to get it clear, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.

So to recap the questions:

Should I tape up the pickup slots?
Should I tape up the front binding?

Thanks for the help!
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statorvane



Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 1959
Location: Upstate New York

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It works out much easier for me to mask all binding before applying toner/shader coats. Once done, all I have to scrape is the top of the binding - the sides are masked.

I don't bother with masking off pickup / control cavities.
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nedonnelly



Joined: 05 Aug 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Statorvane thanks for the advice!
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nedonnelly



Joined: 05 Aug 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So back for more in terms of troubles.

SO.....

I'm shooting nitro lacquer with stewmac lacquer tint. I wanted to do a little burst on the front with a lighter shade of blue to darker blue. But I may have overdone it and got a little runny





I tried a couple different fixes to get rid of the runs: Dry sanding, wet sanding, rubbing with denatured alcohol, burnishing with a screwdriver. None of these had positive results.

Any suggestions to fix this? If it's a lost cause I'm okay with just going dark blue and calling it a day, but I wanted to get something interesting on the front.

ANY advice is appreciated, and thanks in advance!
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Todf



Joined: 09 Jan 2018
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is your compressors psi set at as well as your guns fan pattern? Looks to be possibly over thinned, slow sprayed or the pressure isn't laying it down the way it should. I set my regulator at the gun at 50psi and the compressor at 40psi I use a 13cfm gun
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Lon



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 6127
Location: Stephenville, TX

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With what you have now, I would think about using household Chlorine bleach to remove the coloring. Clean the surface with wipes of naptha and let dry. Wipe the bleach onto the surface and let dry. Then neutralize with a 50/50 mixture of vinegar/water. Let dry. Repeat as necessary to get all the coloring bleached. Chlorine bleach will work on dye or stain pigments and harm the underlaying wood coloring
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ladyfinisher



Joined: 21 Feb 2013
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Location: California

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears your material is way too thin. You are spraying way too heavy. Open up the fan pattern to about four inches wide. You need to "fog" the color on. It will take multiple spray sessions. It needs to dry off some so the runs will not happen. If you are using transparent dye, it will never be solid color.

Ladyfinisher
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nedonnelly



Joined: 05 Aug 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked

That is great advice from everyone

Very Happy

So here are the full details of what I'm trying to do.

This is my first project, so I may be doing things a little out of the ordinary. I'm using a Preval unit which is not great for much of anything. But no PSI and no fan pattern. So that may be the first problem that got me here. But if I can get back to dry wood I could at least spray on more lightly as opposed to the overspray I initially did.

Lon

As far as getting back to dry wood, this is basswood. So I'm a little gun-shy about water getting on it. There is just one layer of lacquer and underneath that I have shellac and denatured alcohol. If I used chlorine to get rid of the color would the chlorine seep through the shellac and alcohol and harm the wood underneath?

Thanks for the continued help!
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Lon



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 6127
Location: Stephenville, TX

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bleach shouldn’t seep thru the nitro and shellac. Wet and ring out a rag with the bleach and wipe the body. Let it dry and see how it affected the coloring. Repeat until all coloring is gone. After last application, neutralize with a 50/50 mix of white vinegar and water then let dry. It’s worth a try versus sanding back to the shellac sealer and start again
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statorvane



Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 1959
Location: Upstate New York

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if you are using a Preval, mix up a bulk dye in lacquer thinner. Directions for bulk mixture are in RR 101. You will dilute this at least 4 parts thinner to one part dye. Maybe even more. Spray repeatedly light shader coats on top of the sealed body, sanded smooth. Just fog it on as Ladyfinisher recommends. Each coat will build the color. Wait 15 minutes to 1/2 hour between shader coats. You are probably going to need several Preval units to accomplish this. Once you've got the color depth - it may look a little flat - not like what you are after. However, it'll really pop when you hit it with a clear coat.

I'd thin the clear lacquer 50% with lacquer thinner. Apply your first clear coats on the dry side - to wet and it can cause the shader coats to run. Don't try and apply even coverage with the first few coats. It is easy to apply too much that way. It'll even out eventually.

From the run pattern you may find it easier to apply the shader coats and clear with the body laying flat.
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marksound



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 16704
Location: OKUSA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take on a fix and redo:

Wipe off the blue dye with thinner. Ditch the Prevals.

Pick up a couple of cans of Reranch Blue dye mix. Use the white fan tip.

Spray light coats with the body laying flat until you reach the depth of color you want.

It can be done. I've done it myself.


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